Booked time v. real time usage

Hi all,

A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.  Namely,
whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v. time
actually using in instrument.

So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into the system
15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time usage tracker
active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would the user be
charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97 minutes
actually used?

I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full time
booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into the
system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge for
the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance notice.
The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by others during
the reserved time.

Amy Wilkerson
Associate Vice President
Research Support
<email obscured>

Rest of post

-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
jphipps
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

Hi all,

A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.  Namely,
whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v. time
actually using in instrument.

So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into the system
15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time usage tracker
active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would the user be
charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97 minutes
actually used?

I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full time
booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into the
system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge for
the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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We allow the cores to bill in either mode. Some choose to hold the user
accountable for time they purchased - whether and how they use it is up to
them. Other cores require login/logout and bill only for the minutes used. I
think either is justifiable. What you can't bill for is a canceled reservation,
since the service wasn't provided. We do bill a reservation fee for canceled
reservations where the core can document that they incurred an actual cost for
the reservation that was canceled. In that case the fee has to be approved on
their cost study just like any other rate.

Rest of post

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
jphipps
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 11:28 AM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

Hi all,

A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.  Namely,
whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v. time
actually using in instrument.

So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into the system
15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time usage tracker
active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would the user be
charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97 minutes
actually used?

I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full time
booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into the
system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge for
the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
Susan

Susan Meyn
Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance notice.
The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by others during
the reserved time.

    Amy Wilkerson
    Associate Vice President
    Research Support
    <email obscured>

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
jphipps
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

    Hi all,

    A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

    So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into the
system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time usage
tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would the
user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

    I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    ――
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UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie



On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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This is interesting and happy to share

At BC Children's Hospital Research cores (Vancouver, BC), for the Imaging
facility, we charge the larger of the two for billing (i.e. actual usage or
booked time). We also charge half of the booked amount if they cancel last
minute. Our booking system has an actual usage recorder so we can use that data
effectively for capturing the actual usage, but as Julie and others mentioned,
the larger one is used for billing to capture the time machine that was not
available to another user.

However, for our Flow core facility, we struggle to charge penalties even
though we have the same rule to charge half-booking time for last-minute
cancellations. The reason is that last-minute cancellations are common as their
work is dependent on donors, or cells being ready or not. We have a column in
our booking system to list the reason for last-minute changes and charge half
rate if the reason is not due to donor unavailable/cells not ready. But as we
can imagine, it is easy to use that as an excuse to skip the penalty (all
trust-based.)

Sorry for adding my question to your question, but would love to hear if flow
core facility folks have found a way to deal with last-minute
cancellations/penalty due to donor unavailability!

Vidhu
UBC-BC Children's Hospital Research, Vancouver, BC

Rest of post

________________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Julie A Auger <email obscured>>
Sent: 16 March 2021 18:40
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie



On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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Vidhu,

Like the other responses, we charge the longest between used and booked.

With regards to the no-show/late cancellation policy is. At URMC, what we have
done is reservations during normal business hours (09:00-18:00), must be
canceled 24 hours in advance, or they get charged for the time.

For after-hours bookings between 18:00-09:00, these can be canceled up till
just before the run with no penalty.

The idea was for those people depending on patient samples, if there are
concerns, they can book the after-hours time and cancel with no penalty.

We also are using the PPMS system so people can also sign up for notifications
of cancellations, and if cancellation within the 24-hour window is filled, the
original booker doesn't get charged.

Rest of post

Regards,
Tim

________________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Vidhu Sharma <email obscured>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:55 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

This is interesting and happy to share

At BC Children's Hospital Research cores (Vancouver, BC), for the Imaging
facility, we charge the larger of the two for billing (i.e. actual usage or
booked time). We also charge half of the booked amount if they cancel last
minute. Our booking system has an actual usage recorder so we can use that data
effectively for capturing the actual usage, but as Julie and others mentioned,
the larger one is used for billing to capture the time machine that was not
available to another user.

However, for our Flow core facility, we struggle to charge penalties even
though we have the same rule to charge half-booking time for last-minute
cancellations. The reason is that last-minute cancellations are common as their
work is dependent on donors, or cells being ready or not. We have a column in
our booking system to list the reason for last-minute changes and charge half
rate if the reason is not due to donor unavailable/cells not ready. But as we
can imagine, it is easy to use that as an excuse to skip the penalty (all
trust-based.)

Sorry for adding my question to your question, but would love to hear if flow
core facility folks have found a way to deal with last-minute
cancellations/penalty due to donor unavailability!

Vidhu
UBC-BC Children's Hospital Research, Vancouver, BC
________________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Julie A Auger <email obscured>>
Sent: 16 March 2021 18:40
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie

On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470

    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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We follow similar policies but if the <24hr cancellation is actually filled and
the instrument is used by another person, we don't charge the cancellation fee.
Our directors have discretion on the specifics of the cancellation fee
policies, as long as the rates are all justified and approved.
-James

James VanEe
Associate Director
Cornell Institute of Biotechnology
Biotechnology Resource Center
NYS Center for Advanced Technology
Cornell University
Biotechnology Bldg. 158
Ithaca, NY 14853
t. (607) 255-5044
www.biotech.cornell.edu

The Cornell Institute of Biotechnology is committed to accessibility. To
request an accommodation to access our services or events, please contact James
VanEe at <email obscured>

Please follow our guidelines to acknowledge the BRC and cite our shared
instrumentation grants in your manuscripts. Thank you.

Rest of post

________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Bushnell, Timothy <email obscured>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 10:13 PM
To: <email obscured> <email obscured>>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

Vidhu,

Like the other responses, we charge the longest between used and booked.

With regards to the no-show/late cancellation policy is. At URMC, what we have
done is reservations during normal business hours (09:00-18:00), must be
canceled 24 hours in advance, or they get charged for the time.

For after-hours bookings between 18:00-09:00, these can be canceled up till
just before the run with no penalty.

The idea was for those people depending on patient samples, if there are
concerns, they can book the after-hours time and cancel with no penalty.

We also are using the PPMS system so people can also sign up for notifications
of cancellations, and if cancellation within the 24-hour window is filled, the
original booker doesn't get charged.

Regards,
Tim

________________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Vidhu Sharma <email obscured>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:55 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

This is interesting and happy to share

At BC Children's Hospital Research cores (Vancouver, BC), for the Imaging
facility, we charge the larger of the two for billing (i.e. actual usage or
booked time). We also charge half of the booked amount if they cancel last
minute. Our booking system has an actual usage recorder so we can use that data
effectively for capturing the actual usage, but as Julie and others mentioned,
the larger one is used for billing to capture the time machine that was not
available to another user.

However, for our Flow core facility, we struggle to charge penalties even
though we have the same rule to charge half-booking time for last-minute
cancellations. The reason is that last-minute cancellations are common as their
work is dependent on donors, or cells being ready or not. We have a column in
our booking system to list the reason for last-minute changes and charge half
rate if the reason is not due to donor unavailable/cells not ready. But as we
can imagine, it is easy to use that as an excuse to skip the penalty (all
trust-based.)

Sorry for adding my question to your question, but would love to hear if flow
core facility folks have found a way to deal with last-minute
cancellations/penalty due to donor unavailability!

Vidhu
UBC-BC Children's Hospital Research, Vancouver, BC
________________________________________
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Julie A Auger <email obscured>>
Sent: 16 March 2021 18:40
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

[CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie

On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470

    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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Hi Vidhu -
In line with the approach that James indicates below, I also encourage our
instrument-based cores to use their discretion on whether or not the user
should be charged for same-day cancellations.  There are many things in science
researchers cannot control - sometimes the mouse dies before cells can be
extracted or access to human samples may be limited due to various reasons
(human behavior is almost impossible to control!).  So the honor system and
core staff discretion is necessary.
All the best,
Julie



On 3/17/21, 8:58 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of James I.
Vanee" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    We follow similar policies but if the <24hr cancellation is actually filled
and the instrument is used by another person, we don't charge the cancellation
fee.  Our directors have discretion on the specifics of the cancellation fee
policies, as long as the rates are all justified and approved.
    -James

    James VanEe
    Associate Director
    Cornell Institute of Biotechnology
    Biotechnology Resource Center
    NYS Center for Advanced Technology
    Cornell University
    Biotechnology Bldg. 158
    Ithaca, NY 14853
    t. (607) 255-5044
    www.biotech.cornell.edu

    The Cornell Institute of Biotechnology is committed to accessibility. To
request an accommodation to access our services or events, please contact James
VanEe at <email obscured>

    Please follow our guidelines to acknowledge the BRC and cite our shared
instrumentation grants in your manuscripts. Thank you.

    ________________________________
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Bushnell, Timothy <email obscured>>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 10:13 PM
    To: <email obscured> <email obscured>>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    Vidhu,

    Like the other responses, we charge the longest between used and booked.

    With regards to the no-show/late cancellation policy is. At URMC, what we
have done is reservations during normal business hours (09:00-18:00), must be
canceled 24 hours in advance, or they get charged for the time.

    For after-hours bookings between 18:00-09:00, these can be canceled up till
just before the run with no penalty.

    The idea was for those people depending on patient samples, if there are
concerns, they can book the after-hours time and cancel with no penalty.

    We also are using the PPMS system so people can also sign up for
notifications of cancellations, and if cancellation within the 24-hour window
is filled, the original booker doesn't get charged.

    Regards,
    Tim


    ________________________________________
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Vidhu Sharma <email obscured>>
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:55 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: [EXT] Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

    This is interesting and happy to share

    At BC Children's Hospital Research cores (Vancouver, BC), for the Imaging
facility, we charge the larger of the two for billing (i.e. actual usage or
booked time). We also charge half of the booked amount if they cancel last
minute. Our booking system has an actual usage recorder so we can use that data
effectively for capturing the actual usage, but as Julie and others mentioned,
the larger one is used for billing to capture the time machine that was not
available to another user.

    However, for our Flow core facility, we struggle to charge penalties even
though we have the same rule to charge half-booking time for last-minute
cancellations. The reason is that last-minute cancellations are common as their
work is dependent on donors, or cells being ready or not. We have a column in
our booking system to list the reason for last-minute changes and charge half
rate if the reason is not due to donor unavailable/cells not ready. But as we
can imagine, it is easy to use that as an excuse to skip the penalty (all
trust-based.)

    Sorry for adding my question to your question, but would love to hear if
flow core facility folks have found a way to deal with last-minute
cancellations/penalty due to donor unavailability!

    Vidhu
    UBC-BC Children's Hospital Research, Vancouver, BC
    ________________________________________
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
Julie A Auger <email obscured>>
    Sent: 16 March 2021 18:40
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]

    UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
    Best wishes,
    Julie



    On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
        Susan

        Susan Meyn
        Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of
Research
        Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


        On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Amy Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

            We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

            Amy Wilkerson
            Associate Vice President
            Research Support
            <email obscured>

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
Behalf Of jphipps
            Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
            To: <email obscured>
            Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

            Hi all,

            A question came up the other day regarding charges in core
facilities.  Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that
they booked v. time actually using in instrument.

            So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs
into the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

            I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the
full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging
into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only
charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has
the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was
hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
            ――
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Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
"If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
(This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.

They show up at 2:20.  Billing begins at 2:00.  No exceptions.  Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
They show up at 1:45.  Billing begins at 1:45.
They don’t show up.  They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them.  (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.)
They leave at 3:30.  I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a policy
decision you need to make.
They work until 5:00.  Bill them for the extra time.  (Of course, if you have
iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

Cheers-

Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  <email obscured>
http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/

Rest of post






-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

[EXTERNAL]

UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie



On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you have received
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=================================

That was a great chuckle, Michael!  Thanks for sharing the quote.  (



On 3/18/21, 11:42 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Cammer,
Michael" <email obscured> on behalf of
<email obscured>> wrote:

    Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
    "If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
    (This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

    Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.

    They show up at 2:20.  Billing begins at 2:00.  No exceptions.  Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
    They show up at 1:45.  Billing begins at 1:45.
    They don’t show up.  They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them.  (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.)
    They leave at 3:30.  I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a
policy decision you need to make.
    They work until 5:00.  Bill them for the extra time.  (Of course, if you
have iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

    Cheers-

    Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
    NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY
10016
    Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  <email obscured>
    http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/

Rest of post






    -----Original Message-----
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    [EXTERNAL]

    UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
    Best wishes,
    Julie



    On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
        Susan

        Susan Meyn
        Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of
Research
        Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


        On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Amy Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

            We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

            Amy Wilkerson
            Associate Vice President
            Research Support
            <email obscured>

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
Behalf Of jphipps
            Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
            To: <email obscured>
            Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

            Hi all,

            A question came up the other day regarding charges in core
facilities.  Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that
they booked v. time actually using in instrument.

            So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs
into the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

            I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the
full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging
into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only
charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has
the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was
hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
            ――
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Thanks Michael!  I’m glad you weighed in with real life in the core examples.

Sheenah

> On Mar 18, 2021, at 2:42 PM, Cammer, Michael
<email obscured>> wrote:
>
> [EXTERNAL]
>
> Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
> "If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
> (This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)
>
> Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.
>
> They show up at 2:20.  Billing begins at 2:00.  No exceptions.  Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
> They show up at 1:45.  Billing begins at 1:45.
> They don’t show up.  They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them.  (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.)
> They leave at 3:30.  I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a
policy decision you need to make.
> They work until 5:00.  Bill them for the extra time.  (Of course, if you have
iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)
>
> Cheers-
>
> Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory
> NYU Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY
10016
> Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  <email obscured>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage
>
> [EXTERNAL]
>
> UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.

Rest of post

> Best wishes,
> Julie
>
>
>
> On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:
>
>    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
>    Susan
>
>    Susan Meyn
>    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
>    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470
>
>
>    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:
>
>        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.
>
>        Amy Wilkerson
>        Associate Vice President
>        Research Support
>        <email obscured>
>
>        -----Original Message-----
>        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
Behalf Of jphipps
>        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
>        To: <email obscured>
>        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage
>
>        Hi all,
>
>        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.
>
>        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?
>
>        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the
full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging
into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only
charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has
the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was
hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
>        ――
>        View topic
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Michael,
You forgot more scenarios - user starts at 2pm and ends at 5pm (assuming there
was no one else reserved 4-5) Bill them 2-5pm. Another is user shows up at 2.20
but uses it until 5 pm (assuming no one is reserved). Bill them 2-5pm?

Given all those scenarios it is difficult to have software take care of it. -
We use interlocks on our instruments so it is easy to use actual time. Do we
have software use reserved time, actual time - do a calculation based on
differences? Also there was mention of federal regulations that say you cannot
bill for a service that was not provided unless there is a visible cost
incurred.

When I have looked into usage patterns I cannot pin "no shows" or shortfall of
time on specific individuals.

For all of the above I have found having a conversation with the users is most
productive about curing behavior.



Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
http://ag.purdue.edu/arp/Microscopy/Pages/default.aspx
skype cjgilpin

Rest of post


-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Cammer, Michael
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 2:42 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
"If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
(This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.

They show up at 2:20.  Billing begins at 2:00.  No exceptions.  Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
They show up at 1:45.  Billing begins at 1:45.
They don’t show up.  They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them.  (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.) They leave at
3:30.  I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a policy decision you
need to make.
They work until 5:00.  Bill them for the extra time.  (Of course, if you have
iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

Cheers-

Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory NYU Langone
Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  <email obscured>
http://nyulmc.org/micros  http://microscopynotes.com/






-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

[EXTERNAL]

UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend charging
the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over their
scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
Best wishes,
Julie



On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
    Susan

    Susan Meyn
    Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of Research
    Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


    On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Amy
Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

        Amy Wilkerson
        Associate Vice President
        Research Support
        <email obscured>

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of jphipps
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

        Hi all,

        A question came up the other day regarding charges in core facilities.
Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that they booked v.
time actually using in instrument.

        So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs into
the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

        I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the full
time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging into
the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only charge
for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has the
instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was hoping to
see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
        ――
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Hi All,

One model to consider is to bill for what might be termed "overage". In this
model, one would bill for the union of the reservation window and the actual
usage:

Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 3:00; Bill: 1:00 - 3:00
Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 1:45; Bill: 1:00 - 2:00

In this type of billing model, the unused portion of the reservation window is
billed, whether it is due to a late arrival or an early logoff (the instrument
was booked and otherwise unusable for these periods). Usage beyond the
reservation window is also billed. This model can be quite effective for
extremely heavily booked instruments, where maximizing usable time for all
users is the highest priority.

Aaron

Aaron Rosen
Senior Finance Lead
Northwestern University
Feinberg School of Medicine
Basic Science Administration

303 East Chicago Avenue
Ward Building, 8-296
Chicago, Illinois 60611
773-519-5977 cell
<email obscured>
feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/
<http://feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/>

On 3/19/21, 10:20 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Gilpin,
Christopher J" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

Michael,
You forgot more scenarios - user starts at 2pm and ends at 5pm (assuming
there was no one else reserved 4-5) Bill them 2-5pm. Another is user shows up
at 2.20 but uses it until 5 pm (assuming no one is reserved). Bill them 2-5pm?

Given all those scenarios it is difficult to have software take care of it.
- We use interlocks on our instruments so it is easy to use actual time. Do we
have software use reserved time, actual time - do a calculation based on
differences? Also there was mention of federal regulations that say you cannot
bill for a service that was not provided unless there is a visible cost
incurred.

When I have looked into usage patterns I cannot pin "no shows" or shortfall
of time on specific individuals.

For all of the above I have found having a conversation with the users is
most productive about curing behavior.

Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://ag.purdue.edu/arp/Microscopy/Pages/default.aspx__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!Bm4ayx4n0OakPEraFRClIWnoeaMCKQvAx9lBMT2CzVtDopdW4TWBmgr649uzJwnPfCsxCPew$
skype cjgilpin

-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Cammer, Michael
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 2:42 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
"If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
(This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.

They show up at 2:20. Billing begins at 2:00. No exceptions. Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
They show up at 1:45. Billing begins at 1:45.
They don’t show up. They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them. (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.) They leave at
3:30. I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a policy decision you
need to make.
They work until 5:00. Bill them for the extra time. (Of course, if you
have iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

Cheers-

Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory NYU
Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY 10016
Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270 <email obscured>
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://nyulmc.org/micros__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!Bm4ayx4n0OakPEraFRClIWnoeaMCKQvAx9lBMT2CzVtDopdW4TWBmgr649uzJwnPfM3d68PP$
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Rest of post






    -----Original Message-----
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    [EXTERNAL]

    UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
    Best wishes,
    Julie



    On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
        Susan

        Susan Meyn
        Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of
Research
        Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


        On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Amy Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

            We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

            Amy Wilkerson
            Associate Vice President
            Research Support
            <email obscured>

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
Behalf Of jphipps
            Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
            To: <email obscured>
            Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

            Hi all,

            A question came up the other day regarding charges in core
facilities.  Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that
they booked v. time actually using in instrument.

            So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs
into the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

            I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the
full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging
into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only
charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has
the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was
hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
            ――
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Aaron,
Does Nucore allow for that type of billing in an automated way?


Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
http://ag.purdue.edu/arp/Microscopy/Pages/default.aspx
skype cjgilpin

Rest of post


-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Aaron J Rosen
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 12:20 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time usage

Hi All,

One model to consider is to bill for what might be termed "overage". In this
model, one would bill for the union of the reservation window and the actual
usage:

Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 3:00; Bill: 1:00 - 3:00
Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 1:45; Bill: 1:00 - 2:00

In this type of billing model, the unused portion of the reservation window is
billed, whether it is due to a late arrival or an early logoff (the instrument
was booked and otherwise unusable for these periods). Usage beyond the
reservation window is also billed. This model can be quite effective for
extremely heavily booked instruments, where maximizing usable time for all
users is the highest priority.

Aaron

Aaron Rosen
Senior Finance Lead
Northwestern University
Feinberg School of Medicine
Basic Science Administration

303 East Chicago Avenue
Ward Building, 8-296
Chicago, Illinois 60611
773-519-5977 cell
<email obscured>
feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/
<http://feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/>


On 3/19/21, 10:20 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Gilpin,
Christopher J" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

    Michael,
    You forgot more scenarios - user starts at 2pm and ends at 5pm (assuming
there was no one else reserved 4-5) Bill them 2-5pm. Another is user shows up
at 2.20 but uses it until 5 pm (assuming no one is reserved). Bill them 2-5pm?

    Given all those scenarios it is difficult to have software take care of it.
- We use interlocks on our instruments so it is easy to use actual time. Do we
have software use reserved time, actual time - do a calculation based on
differences? Also there was mention of federal regulations that say you cannot
bill for a service that was not provided unless there is a visible cost
incurred.

    When I have looked into usage patterns I cannot pin "no shows" or shortfall
of time on specific individuals.

    For all of the above I have found having a conversation with the users is
most productive about curing behavior.


    
    Chris
    He/Him/His
    Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
    Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
    Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
    Purdue University
    Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
    170 S. University St
    West Lafayette, IN 47907
    765-494-7750
    <email obscured>
    <email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://ag.purdue.edu/arp/Microscopy/Pages/default.aspx__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!Bm4ayx4n0OakPEraFRClIWnoeaMCKQvAx9lBMT2CzVtDopdW4TWBmgr649uzJwnPfCsxCPew$
    skype cjgilpin


    -----Original Message-----
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Cammer, Michael
    Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 2:42 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
    "If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
    (This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

    Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of 2:00 to
4:00.

    They show up at 2:20.  Billing begins at 2:00.  No exceptions.  Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
    They show up at 1:45.  Billing begins at 1:45.
    They don’t show up.  They tied up the instrument so no one else can use it.
Bill them.  (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you will
find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.) They leave at
3:30.  I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a policy decision you
need to make.
    They work until 5:00.  Bill them for the extra time.  (Of course, if you
have iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

    Cheers-

    Michael Cammer, Sr Research Scientist, DART Microscopy Laboratory NYU
Langone Health, 540 First Avenue, SK2 Microscopy Suite, New York, NY  10016
    Office: 646-501-0567 Cell: 914-309-3270  <email obscured>
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://nyulmc.org/micros__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!Bm4ayx4n0OakPEraFRClIWnoeaMCKQvAx9lBMT2CzVtDopdW4TWBmgr649uzJwnPfM3d68PP$
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    -----Original Message-----
    From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Julie A Auger
    Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
    To: <email obscured>
    Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

    [EXTERNAL]

    UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
    Best wishes,
    Julie



    On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Meyn,
Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

        VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
        Susan

        Susan Meyn
        Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of
Research
        Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


        On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Amy Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

            We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides advance
notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use by
others during the reserved time.

            Amy Wilkerson
            Associate Vice President
            Research Support
            <email obscured>

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
Behalf Of jphipps
            Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
            To: <email obscured>
            Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

            Hi all,

            A question came up the other day regarding charges in core
facilities.  Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that
they booked v. time actually using in instrument.

            So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs
into the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

            I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for the
full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before logging
into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should only
charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the user has
the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I was
hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
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Yes, "Overage" is one of the allowable billing modes in NUcore, and works
exactly as I described. I will note that only a very small number of our cores
use this mode. The vast majority of our instruments are setup either to bill
for "Reservation" (no actual minutes captured) or "Usage" (charge for the
actual minutes used). We discussed the "Overage" billing mode extensively with
our compliance office out of an abundance of caution, and they agree it is a
compliant charging method.

Aaron Rosen
Senior Finance Lead
Northwestern University
Feinberg School of Medicine
Basic Science Administration

303 East Chicago Avenue
Ward Building, 8-296
Chicago, Illinois 60611
773-519-5977 cell
<email obscured>
feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/
<http://feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/>

On 3/19/21, 11:40 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Gilpin,
Christopher J" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

Aaron,
Does Nucore allow for that type of billing in an automated way?

Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Aaron J Rosen
Sent: Friday, March 19, 2021 12:20 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real time
usage

Hi All,

One model to consider is to bill for what might be termed "overage". In
this model, one would bill for the union of the reservation window and the
actual usage:

Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 3:00; Bill: 1:00 -
3:00 Reservation Window: 1:00 - 2:00; Actual Usage: 1:15 - 1:45; Bill: 1:00 -
2:00

In this type of billing model, the unused portion of the reservation window
is billed, whether it is due to a late arrival or an early logoff (the
instrument was booked and otherwise unusable for these periods). Usage beyond
the reservation window is also billed. This model can be quite effective for
extremely heavily booked instruments, where maximizing usable time for all
users is the highest priority.

Aaron

Aaron Rosen
Senior Finance Lead
Northwestern University
Feinberg School of Medicine
Basic Science Administration

303 East Chicago Avenue
Ward Building, 8-296
Chicago, Illinois 60611
773-519-5977 cell
<email obscured>
feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/
<http://feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/>

On 3/19/21, 10:20 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Gilpin, Christopher J" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

Michael,
You forgot more scenarios - user starts at 2pm and ends at 5pm
(assuming there was no one else reserved 4-5) Bill them 2-5pm. Another is user
shows up at 2.20 but uses it until 5 pm (assuming no one is reserved). Bill
them 2-5pm?

Given all those scenarios it is difficult to have software take care of
it. - We use interlocks on our instruments so it is easy to use actual time. Do
we have software use reserved time, actual time - do a calculation based on
differences? Also there was mention of federal regulations that say you cannot
bill for a service that was not provided unless there is a visible cost
incurred.

When I have looked into usage patterns I cannot pin "no shows" or
shortfall of time on specific individuals.

For all of the above I have found having a conversation with the users
is most productive about curing behavior.

-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of Cammer, Michael
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 2:42 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

Direct quote from a finance person about 20 years ago:
"If they breathe near the instrument, bill them."
(This was very pre-covid, so breathing near instruments was allowed.)

Joking aside, here are a few scenarios based on a scheduled time of
2:00 to 4:00.

They show up at 2:20. Billing begins at 2:00. No exceptions. Make an
exception and it will become a habit.
They show up at 1:45. Billing begins at 1:45.
They don’t show up. They tied up the instrument so no one else can use
it. Bill them. (Exceptions can be made for extenuating circumstances, but you
will find that some people will take advantage of your kindness.) They leave at
3:30. I usually advise billing until 4:00, but this is a policy decision you
need to make.
They work until 5:00. Bill them for the extra time. (Of course, if
you have iLab, the system stops keeping track at 4:15, so you're out of luck.)

Cheers-

Rest of post






        -----Original Message-----
        From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
Of Julie A Auger
        Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 9:41 PM
        To: <email obscured>
        Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v. real
time usage

        [EXTERNAL]

        UC Davis is the same as Amy and Susan describe.  We actually recommend
charging the larger of the 2 - booked or actual.  Sometimes a user goes over
their scheduled time so we want to make sure capture all time actually used for
billing.
        Best wishes,
        Julie



        On 3/16/21, 10:12 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of
Meyn, Susan M" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

            VUMC uses the same approach as described by Amy -
            Susan

            Susan Meyn
            Senior Director | Vanderbilt University Medical Center Office of
Research
            Twitter: @VUMCResearch | <email obscured> | 615.322.0470


            On 3/16/21, 11:41 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf
of Amy Wilkerson" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>>
wrote:

                We charge for the full time booked unless the user provides
advance notice.  The rationale is that the instrument is not available for use
by others during the reserved time.

                Amy Wilkerson
                Associate Vice President
                Research Support
                <email obscured>

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>>
On Behalf Of jphipps
                Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2021 12:28 PM
                To: <email obscured>
                Subject: [core administrators network forum] Booked time v.
real time usage

                Hi all,

                A question came up the other day regarding charges in core
facilities.  Namely, whether it is appropriate to charge users for time that
they booked v. time actually using in instrument.

                So, for example, a user books 2 hours on a microscope, but logs
into the system 15 minutes late (we are using Stratocore and have the real-time
usage tracker active), the person left 8 minutes early.  So, in that case would
the user be charge for the full 2 hours, or would we need to bill for the 97
minutes actually used?

                I am a little unclear on this, as the scope is unavailable for
the full time booked, and the user could have been prepping samples before
logging into the system.  Our sponsored projects person believes that we should
only charge for the time that the microscope is active, but I see it as the
user has the instrument for their allotted time and should be billed.  Thus, I
was hoping to see how others handle this situation. Any advice would be greatly
appreciated.
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Chris -
The Stratocore PPMS software that we use at UC Davis is configured to
automatically bill in that way. Core staff can intervene to make
modifications, if necessary (extenuating circumstances, good excuses, etc.).
Best,
Julie

On 3/19/21, 9:40 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of Gilpin,
Christopher J" <email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:

Aaron,
Does Nucore allow for that type of billing in an automated way?

Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Campus-wide Coordinator for Electron Microscopy
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility.
http://ag.purdue.edu/arp/Microscopy/Pages/default.aspx
skype cjgilpin