Hello all,
Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
questions are on the table.
1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot be
depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased with internal
funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the rate calculation?
2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice, there is a
limit to the utility of them for replacement of older instruments as well as
acquiring cutting edge technology. I have proposed an institutional funding
mechanism to provide for this process. I've been asked to see if other
institutions have such an internal funding mechanism. If so, what is the
approximate value of that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund work.
Thanks so much,
Tim
Hi Tim,
At Northwestern some of the cores depreciate and some don't. All of the Cancer
Center cores depreciate where possible. This cost is calculated into the rates
since those funds will be transferred out of the recharge account.
Our Office for Research does have an internal equipment competition. It used to
be twice a year but just got cut to once. The total available funding also
decreased so I'm not sure how much we have in the current pool. We also have a
loan program, where cores that can afford it borrow the funds for a piece of
equipment and pay them back over 10 years. That program is thus (mostly)
self-sustaining.
Thanks.
Jeff
Jeffrey Weiss, PhD
Director for Research Core Planning
Director for Research Analysis | Feinberg School of Medicine
Research Professor of Medicine | Northwestern University | T: 312.503.0543
<email obscured>
Rest of post
-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
tim_bushnell
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:44 AM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
Hello all,
Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
questions are on the table.
1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot be
depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased with internal
funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the rate calculation?
2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice, there is a
limit to the utility of them for replacement of older instruments as well as
acquiring cutting edge technology. I have proposed an institutional funding
mechanism to provide for this process. I've been asked to see if other
institutions have such an internal funding mechanism. If so, what is the
approximate value of that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund work.
Thanks so much,
Tim
ββ
View topic
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/T28UKW2mrHiDWJt4uh9Yz__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!FZryshYHswfn-fnwhrqhQoyV1PSul4Dbgr3puHpGfWaPU0Wc5oAfLbnVZ3vV6yAoZLFqmpztbQ$
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
Hi Jeff,
In regards to the loan program, do the cores write the cost of the loan
repayment into the service rates or is this captured in the depreciation?
"We also have a loan program, where cores that can afford it borrow the
funds for a piece of equipment and pay them back over 10 years."
Thank you,
Megan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:50 PM Jeffrey Weiss <email obscured>>
wrote:
Rest of post
> Hi Tim,
>
> At Northwestern some of the cores depreciate and some don't. All of the
> Cancer Center cores depreciate where possible. This cost is calculated into
> the rates since those funds will be transferred out of the recharge account.
>
> Our Office for Research does have an internal equipment competition. It
> used to be twice a year but just got cut to once. The total available
> funding also decreased so I'm not sure how much we have in the current
> pool. We also have a loan program, where cores that can afford it borrow
> the funds for a piece of equipment and pay them back over 10 years. That
> program is thus (mostly) self-sustaining.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeffrey Weiss, PhD
> Director for Research Core Planning
> Director for Research Analysis | Feinberg School of Medicine
> Research Professor of Medicine | Northwestern University | T: 312.503.0543
> <email obscured>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf
> Of tim_bushnell
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:44 AM
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
> funding
>
> Hello all,
>
> Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
> questions are on the table.
>
> 1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot be
> depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased with
> internal funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the rate
> calculation?
>
> 2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice, there is
> a limit to the utility of them for replacement of older instruments as well
> as acquiring cutting edge technology. I have proposed an institutional
> funding mechanism to provide for this process. I've been asked to see if
> other institutions have such an internal funding mechanism. If so, what is
> the approximate value of that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund
> work.
>
> Thanks so much,
> Tim
> ββ
> View topic
>
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/T28UKW2mrHiDWJt4uh9Yz__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!FZryshYHswfn-fnwhrqhQoyV1PSul4Dbgr3puHpGfWaPU0Wc5oAfLbnVZ3vV6yAoZLFqmpztbQ$
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
> ββ
> View topic http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/5ZHnNt0oxGA1TZQYLEf85z
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
At Purdue, the cores depreciate equipment, and add it into the rate
calculation. In cases where the cost of depreciation would make the rate
unacceptably high, we can request a waiver of depreciation for internal users.
The university has an internal funding mechanism through the Vice
President for Research. Funding is allocated in two buckets - one for equipment
under $100K, and one for equipment between $100K to $1M. The larger equipment
proposals require a 1/3 cost share from outside the VPRs office, which can come
from a mix of the colleges, departments, or individual faculty. The Associate
Deans for Research form the review committee to decide who gets funded.
Overview and templates for the Purdue program are at:
https://www.purdue.edu/research/funding-and-grant-writing/funding/lab-program.php
Natasha Nikolaidis
She/Her/Hers
Associate Director of Operations, Bindley Bioscience Center
Bindley Bioscience Center, 1203 West State St, West Lafayette, IN 47907
o: 765-494-5997 m: 765-491-8524
Twitter<https://twitter.com/PurdueBBC>
[64F26F6F]<https://www.purdue.edu/?utm_source=signature&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=purdue>
Rest of post
-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
tim_bushnell
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 12:44 PM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
Hello all,
Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
questions are on the table.
1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot be
depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased with internal
funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the rate calculation?
2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice, there is a
limit to the utility of them for replacement of older instruments as well as
acquiring cutting edge technology. I have proposed an institutional funding
mechanism to provide for this process. I've been asked to see if other
institutions have such an internal funding mechanism. If so, what is the
approximate value of that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund work.
Thanks so much,
Tim
ββ
View topic http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/T28UKW2mrHiDWJt4uh9Yz
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
Hi Megan,
They depreciate to cover the cost, and that depreciation would be factored into
the rates.
Rest of post
Thanks.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
Megan Tardif
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:57 AM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
Hi Jeff,
In regards to the loan program, do the cores write the cost of the loan
repayment into the service rates or is this captured in the depreciation?
"We also have a loan program, where cores that can afford it borrow the funds
for a piece of equipment and pay them back over 10 years."
Thank you,
Megan
On Tue, Oct 20, 2020 at 12:50 PM Jeffrey Weiss <email obscured>>
wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> At Northwestern some of the cores depreciate and some don't. All of
> the Cancer Center cores depreciate where possible. This cost is
> calculated into the rates since those funds will be transferred out of the
recharge account.
>
> Our Office for Research does have an internal equipment competition.
> It used to be twice a year but just got cut to once. The total
> available funding also decreased so I'm not sure how much we have in
> the current pool. We also have a loan program, where cores that can
> afford it borrow the funds for a piece of equipment and pay them back
> over 10 years. That program is thus (mostly) self-sustaining.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeffrey Weiss, PhD
> Director for Research Core Planning
> Director for Research Analysis | Feinberg School of Medicine Research
> Professor of Medicine | Northwestern University | T: 312.503.0543
> <email obscured>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On
> Behalf Of tim_bushnell
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 11:44 AM
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and
> Instrument funding
>
> Hello all,
>
> Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
> questions are on the table.
>
> 1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot
> be depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased
> with internal funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the
> rate calculation?
>
> 2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice,
> there is a limit to the utility of them for replacement of older
> instruments as well as acquiring cutting edge technology. I have
> proposed an institutional funding mechanism to provide for this
> process. I've been asked to see if other institutions have such an
> internal funding mechanism. If so, what is the approximate value of
> that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund work.
>
> Thanks so much,
> Tim
> ββ
> View topic
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/T28UKW2mrHiDW
> Jt4uh9Yz__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!FZryshYHswfn-fnwhrqhQoyV1PSul4Dbg
> r3puHpGfWaPU0Wc5oAfLbnVZ3vV6yAoZLFqmpztbQ$
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
> ββ
> View topic
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/5ZHnNt0oxGA1T
> ZQYLEf85z__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!E4lgJtxKvC4Cr7udC-0UhXxAIFzOIJ5Y
> uCbqzxf1CrOMEMVhj04dVJHELiVndQRCzJtZ5eK1pw$
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
ββ
View topic
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/JqcP80C4c7QkqCKejYibY__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!E4lgJtxKvC4Cr7udC-0UhXxAIFzOIJ5YuCbqzxf1CrOMEMVhj04dVJHELiVndQRCzJshLpnBUw$
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
Tim,
Here at Pitt we do depreciate internally funded instruments and include it in
the rate calculation.
I too perennially propose we establish an internal funding mechanism β along
the lines that Jeff describes, but have not been successful. If anyone can
suggest the correct combination of words I will try it on our new leadership.
We do have some way of placing some income into a separate account for this
purpose but it is insufficient and happens above my pay grade, sorry that I
donβt have details on that.
Good luck!
Janette
Janette Lamb, Ph.D. | Director
Genomics Research Core
A: 3343 Forbes Avenue
T: 1 412 383 3146 E: <email obscured><email obscured>>
W: genetics.pitt.edu<https://www.genetics.pitt.edu/>
@Genomics.Pitt<https://www.facebook.com/Genomics.Pitt/>
When using our services please cite Genomics Research Core, RRID: SCR_018301 in
publications.
Ask me how we can help with your genomics projects.
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> on behalf of
tim_bushnell <email obscured>>
Reply-To: <email obscured>" <email obscured>>
Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2020 at 12:44 PM
To: <email obscured>" <email obscured>>
Subject: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
Hello all,
Hoping to get some help from the collective wisdom here. Two separate
questions are on the table.
1. Depreciation - I know instruments purchased with NIH funds cannot be
depreciated, but how many of you depreciate instruments purchased with internal
funds? If you do depreciate, do you add that into the rate calculation?
2. Instrument purchases - While instrumentation grants are nice, there is a
limit to the utility of them for replacement of older instruments as well as
acquiring cutting edge technology. I have proposed an institutional funding
mechanism to provide for this process. I've been asked to see if other
institutions have such an internal funding mechanism. If so, what is the
approximate value of that fund on an annual basis and how does the fund work.
Thanks so much,
Tim
ββ
View topic
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.abrf.org%2Fr%2Ftopic%2FT28UKW2mrHiDWJt4uh9Yz&data=04%7C01%7Cjal18%40pitt.edu%7C358b2806c48d427537a308d875175d3e%7C9ef9f489e0a04eeb87cc3a526112fd0d%7C1%7C0%7C637388090501975867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=bN5rPekNSgbFbDfQn0AbDkaFWTBEX7M9I7Dz5wRFnZo%3D&reserved=0
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
Good thread. Natasha thanks for sharing your program's details on this.
We are similar to most where some Cores have depreciation for instrumentation
but for many more our purchases are funded via state loan program
We don't have a set amount of money for replacement of instrumentation but we
are able to submit rank ordered requests for instrumentation annually Our
Dean is very supportive
Also, we help Cores prepare shared instrumentation grants
Hi Tim,
Stanford has an internal capital "bank", which loans money to service centers
to purchase instruments. Payback is via 5-year straightline depreciation plus
interest. We include the depreciation and the allowable part of the interest
in the user rate calculations. The "unallowable" interest is paid by the
sponsoring department.
For new cutting edge instrumentation (which is often underutilized at first),
the Dean's Office will sometimes pay some of the depreciation.
Bruce Koch
Senior Director, Scientific Service Centers
Stanford University School of Medicine
Hi Bruce,
I was going to ask about the unallowable interest aspect in terms of the rate
structure, but getting the departments to pay this portion is pretty brilliant!
If you don't mind me asking, what did you determine the "allowable interest
portion" to be? When we developed our own Capital Loan program at Northwestern,
we were wary of including any interest in the repayments, as we weren't clear
if that was allowable to be recharged to sponsored projects, so we erred on the
side of no interest loans. If you have something to hang your hat on here, that
could be very useful for many schools.
Thanks,
Aaron Rosen
Senior Finance Lead
Northwestern University
Feinberg School of Medicine
Basic Science Administration
303 East Chicago Avenue
Ward Building, 8-296
Chicago, Illinois 60611
773-519-5977 cell
<email obscured>
feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/
<http://feinberg.northwestern.edu/sites/bsa/>
ο»ΏOn 10/22/20, 10:52 AM, "Core Administrators Network Forum on behalf of bkoch"
<email obscured> on behalf of <email obscured>> wrote:
Hi Tim,
Stanford has an internal capital "bank", which loans money to service
centers to purchase instruments. Payback is via 5-year straightline
depreciation plus interest. We include the depreciation and the allowable part
of the interest in the user rate calculations. The "unallowable" interest is
paid by the sponsoring department.
For new cutting edge instrumentation (which is often underutilized at
first), the Dean's Office will sometimes pay some of the depreciation.
Bruce Koch
Senior Director, Scientific Service Centers
Stanford University School of Medicine
ββ
View topic
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/5QZezHsNLzxHcdPlFHhfKZ__;!!Dq0X2DkFhyF93HkjWTBQKhk!ACMIO4R8ADWI2YyActmVUAK7tUBaXD0SscUFjczK88VmF_3Z6uVPhsALxow8Q8MAWOkGkWRS$
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
Aaron, thanks for posing that question
I am curious as to how this works with high end equipment. A $4M instrument
with a service contract of $200K works out to be $111 per hour if used 24/7. Or
did I miss something?
Chris
He/Him/His
Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
Purdue University
Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
170 S. University St
West Lafayette, IN 47907
765-494-7750
<email obscured>
<email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility
Rest of post
-----Original Message-----
From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
tmchugh
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 7:50 AM
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
Aaron, thanks for posing that question
ββ
View topic http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/5CU52KmMtGfUS7GZFWJmvr
Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
We never charged for capital for high end instruments. Simply not affordable.
Usually these instruments are purchased with grant money, in which case you
dont recover depreciation. For portion that comes from university, it is
simply written off.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 23, 2020, at 10:01 AM, Gilpin, Christopher J <email obscured>>
wrote:
>
> ο»ΏI am curious as to how this works with high end equipment. A $4M instrument
with a service contract of $200K works out to be $111 per hour if used 24/7. Or
did I miss something?
Rest of post
>
> Chris
> He/Him/His
> Christopher J. Gilpin Ph.D.
> Director, Life Science Microscopy Facility
> Purdue University
> Whistler Hall of Agriculture Research, Room S052
> 170 S. University St
> West Lafayette, IN 47907
> 765-494-7750
> <email obscured>
> <email obscured> reaches everyone in the facility
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Core Administrators Network Forum <email obscured>> On Behalf Of
tmchugh
> Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 7:50 AM
> To: <email obscured>
> Subject: Re: [core administrators network forum] Depreciation and Instrument
funding
>
> Aaron, thanks for posing that question
> ββ
> View topic http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/5CU52KmMtGfUS7GZFWJmvr
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
>
> ββ
> View topic http://list.abrf.org/r/topic/1sZSx1fgQQAcdPgZdr09zN
> Leave group <email obscured>?Subject=Unsubscribe
>
"Unallowable interest": Apparently Stanford charges us interest higher than
Market Rate. Any interest above the Market Rate is "unallowable" and is
charged to the sponsoring department.